Kuwentong Pamamahay

Transcript in progress

KZ

Grace, tell me a little bit about you and your background. I understand from, I mean, our friendship of a few years now that, you have a mixed heritage background, but also, I believe you grew up in Surrey. Is that right?

GE

Yeah.

KZ

Yeah. So maybe you can start there. Tell me a little bit about your experiences of what that was like for you?

GE

Yeah, totally. So yeah, I have a Korean mom and a Filipino dad. And I was born in Richmond, and then grew up in Surrey, pretty much since I was a baby. I think we only lived in Richmond for a very short time, shortly after I was born and then moved to Surrey right away, lived there for many, many years, all the way up until I went to UBC for university. That was when I moved away for the first time to live on campus. That was, yeah, pretty much my whole childhood was there.

KZ

Amazing. And um, yeah, I wonder what that was like for you to kind of think back to your childhood and your upbringing in Surrey. I’m curious as to what kind of cultural experiences you might have had prior to moving to UBC?

GE

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, so many. I think some of my fondest memories actually, and memories that are intertwined with culture was church, that was a place where I would actually get a good dose of both Korean and Filipino culture. My mom and my dad were both heavily involved at the church. I grew up going to one called All Nations Church, which was in New Westminster for many years. And so it was originally a Korean church, but then it expanded and at one point was also a Filipino church. And so every Sunday was this, like, amazing cultural place where you would have it wasn’t like, a lot of Canadian churches, it’s very much like service in the morning, or like afternoon, maybe or sometimes in the evening. And then you kind of go for an hour or two, and then you go home. Korean or Filipino churches, you’re there to talk, you’re there to hang out. And like, you’ve got a medley of different voices and languages and food even like you don’t go there just to go to service. You go there to eat, you have fellowship, like you hang out with your friends, you meet your family members, everything. And so, yeah, I think that was where I met a lot of young Filipino people as well. That was one of the places where I had a lot of Filipino influence in my life outside of my dad’s side of the family.

KZ

Mm hmm. That sounds so cool. I mean, I haven’t heard of like distinctly like a Korean and a Filipino church setting. But it’s so interesting to me that you kind of found both of them in the same space. And I hear that [you] also, like were able to, like connect with both friends and family in the same kind of like church setting. And I guess a follow up question to kind of connecting with your family further: […] Were other members of your dad’s side of the family also, based— like, were they nearby when you grew up? Or like, were they in Vancouver? What was that like for you?

GE

Yeah, yeah, that’s a really good question. I was so fortunate to have majority of my dad’s side of the family— I wouldn’t say it’s immediate family because immediate family refers to your siblings and parents, but all of (or almost all of) his siblings were in or around Vancouver. So some were in Richmond and some were in Surrey or just kind of neighboring cities or in Vancouver as well. And I, I would say one of my fondest memories as well of just like growing up in a Filipino family was always Christmas. And that’s what I realized. I think when I grew older, I realized that having your whole dad’s side of the family or like having your whole… I guess like […] approximately up to 50 people at every Christmas, with like a giant potluck and singing and dancing every Christmas wasn’t a totally normal way to celebrate the holidays.

GE

But yeah, my whole dad’s side of the family. So he’s the oldest child of nine—or wait. Oh my gosh. Now I’m blanking. He’s the oldest of nine kids. I could be wrong, because I’m so used to counting… I could count my aunts and uncles, but then that would also embarrass me. So anyway, oldest of nine. And they all immigrated to Canada one by one under the sponsorship of my dad and my mom, who originally moved to Vancouver with […] the eldest brothers, the two oldest next to him. My uncle Mon and Uncle Ricky.

KZ

Incredible. Um, so you said that was it those first three brothers who had immigrated at the same time? And did you say that your mom had also immigrated at the same time with them? Were they, was that all like the same movement?

GE

Oh, yeah, good question. So pretty much how this all started was when my dad, who was a musician in the Philippines with his brothers, they moved away from the Philippines initially to play music. They were singers, guitarists, pianists, drummers, they all played all sorts of instruments. And they moved to Hong Kong to play in nightclubs, restaurants, bars, hotels, like wherever they could play music they were performing. And my mom left Korea as a flight attendant, so she was also kind of traveling around.

GE

Actually, I should correct myself my, my dad and his brothers were also in Japan for many years. So they were kind of just all over parts of Asia, really, traveling and playing music. And my mom was also working, and they met in Hong Kong, when I believe my dad was performing with his brothers at… It was like a hotel, or some kind of restaurant. And then my mom and her flight attendant friends had stopped over from one of their flights. And they met I think, and then saw each other once again at another venue or place in Hong Kong and really got connected there and started dating and then they eventually moved to Canada… Oh my gosh, many years later. I’m not going to quote the years because they might be wrong. But after several years of dating […] and living together, they decided to all move to Canada because there was a job opportunity there from a friend that they met in Hong Kong […] who had a business in Saskatchewan, a restaurant.

KZ

That’s so fascinating. I think that’s such a beautiful story. Um, I remember you telling me that for the first time over the summer, and I was just like, “Oh, my God,” like fawning over it, because it’s so beautiful. And that’s so interesting, too, that it was Saskatchewan first and not Vancouver. I guess my follow up question there is: How did they end up settling in Vancouver? Like, why did they not stay in Saskatchewan?

GE

So they first moved to Saskatchewan because it really was to, I think, start their new life because they knew that they wanted to move to North America and build something here. But it was— I mean, of course, it’s always hard for immigrants to build a brand new life in a totally new country. And for them as musicians, it was a unique case especially where, you know, the skilled work they were doing was… It’s quite like a subj ive craft. It’s not like you’re a doctor or you are a lawyer or […] these careers that are very structured and like they have a clear cut [of] credentials to them. And so, Saskatchewan— The life they were living in Hong Kong was very, very different [laughing] from when they came to Saskatchewan, it was extremely cold. And I know they were not happy in the sense that it was uncomfortable, in many ways. The weather, the lifestyle, you know, they were used to kind of being rock stars over there in Hong Kong, they were living the life, like making good money. They were well connected in the industry and had really built a name for themselves and they had to start from scratch. And it was a smaller town— I think it was Saskatoon? Or was it Prince Albert? I can’t remember which they first settled down in, but it was just so snowy, and it’s just not a big city, right? It was small and new. And so they knew that once they were able to get their citizenship or permanent residency, they wanted to move somewhere warmer [laughs] and more populated and just you know. [… T]hey’re definitely city people. So that had a big, big impact.

KZ

Yeah, I can empathize. laughs Yeah, definitely having that jolt of like, especially coming from like a tropical humid [climate…] Like, that’s kind of what I think about whenever I go to Asia, just really broadly, at least, those parts of Asia that are all like islands; to go from island to tundra, I can only imagine how, how jolting that contrast must be. But yeah, that’s, that’s so interesting. I do love that story a lot. And thank you so much for sharing.

KZ

Yeah, I guess I’m kind of coming back to like your particular experiences being like a generation removed from, like your parents’ immigration. And yeah, kind of what it was like to connect with culture, especially based off of like your family background, how you have extended family here. I guess what were maybe some practices or traditions that you had, either with family or what you associate with the culture in general, that kind of like that you associate with like being Filipino in Canada specifically?

GE

Totally. I would say… the thing that makes me feel most Filipino is definitely food. And I’m sure that’s what a lot of other people say, but. […] I have to say that no one does potlucks quite like Filipinos. It’s just next level. And I think growing up with all of my titas and titos in Vancouver and having these big Christmases together every single year, […] I would say that was one of our biggest traditions. Christmases, and […] sometimes it’d be birthdays, but I just have fond memories every year of having a giant table filled with just everything you can imagine. You know, whether it’s the adobo or the pancit, or like puto— like all the desserts too, it has its own separate section of the table— It’s just one of my favorite things. And to this day, one of my favorite comfort foods is my dad’s sinigang. That’s like, one of my favorite foods. And so, I would say food’s a big one.

GE

And going back to the Christmases, I would associate music a lot with my Filipino identity. And that, I think, is often tied into the stereotype of Filipinos loving karaoke. But with my family it was next level because so many of my uncles and family members— since that was the reason we even made it to Canada in the first place was because of music and their job as musicians. A lot of my cousins as well have to sing and play instruments. And so every single Christmas wasn’t just like Christmas carols. It was also full blown group performances of like pop songs ranging from, like, the 70’s, 80’s, early 2000’s, you name it, like, someone was getting up on into the middle of the group, middle of the room. And mind you, like, you know, with my dad being one of nine children in the family, there’s lots of little cousins and friends and like so many people under one roof, and it’d be like I was saying earlier about, I want to say almost 40 to 50 of us under one roof every year for Christmas, singing and dancing and laughing and celebrating. So music is a big one, being able to just jam out with them so comfortably. I think that was where my… I owe a lot of my talent and musicality to that side of the family for sure.

KZ

It’s so incredible to, even just like– The visual that I get from that is just so… It’s so like this gestures, like so astounding. Because I know exactly what you mean. I think I might have had like a very similar experience just in terms of like how, like the sheer amount of people that are under one room. I just know that the decibel level just gets so loud, naturally. Like not even having the mic, like not even having the karaoke around, just knowing that it’s all like, Oh my God, there’s just like so many people that the room is kinda like shaking a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I can definitely, that resonates in a very real way. But yeah, just to reiterate that it was like a multigenerational space, right? And it wasn’t just like, family proper. There was also just like, the extension of fellowship, almost, to just, like, invite other people kind of into the culture into the traditions and kind of like, share in that feeling. That’s so beautiful. And we love to see that especially over the holidays. And we know how much Filipinos love Christmas, too. So I can, yeah, I can only imagine the the festivities are like at an all time high every year.

GE

Absolutely. Yeah, I know you get it because it is this very special feeling that you… It’s, it’s so hard to describe in a few words, but I’m glad you, you know where I’m coming from. And another little fun thing that I just was thinking about as you were going through it was that originally, when my dad and his brothers were playing music, when they were younger, back in the Philippines, they loved it so much and would be spending all their time on it jamming out on their guitars, singing whatever, listening to the latest records. But my Lolo, my grandfather, he was an accountant and a very strict and proper sort of parent, and he really wanted my dad to also be an accountant or, and you know, wanted all of his children, really, to be stable and have really high earning careers, to make a life for themselves. He wanted them to be successful in a way that he knew success was defined as. And so, when he saw them playing music, he vehemently disapproved of it. And it was, I think, hard for him to see his children seemingly throw their lives away, you know, because to him, it was, it was so… It would just wouldn’t bring them anywhere. But I think my dad’s greatest satisfactions in life– I don’t know if I can even speak for him in this way– but I find great satisfaction in knowing that it was music and his talent, and their talents together that brought them to a new country and a new life. And to be able to bring my Lolo and Lola as well over from the Philippines, to… Yeah, just live an even better life, have better support and be with their children, you know, have better health care, just everything, access to everything they could possibly need.

GE

And my dad’s never the type of person to be like I told you so but I think my Lola and Lola always knew like, wow, our kids really did take care of us and it was ironic that it was music all along. And it’s also funny that despite my Lolo being so against his kids playing music, when he was still with us, he would always be the one playing the piano in the corner of the room or like jamming along with us, and, and he was incredible, he was such a talented piano player. And so I always thought to myself like, Oh my gosh, in the Philippines like… Did he never show that to his kids? Or was it just that he so badly wanted them to be successful? It was even– My dad told me a story that still breaks my heart. My dad was playing the guitar one day, or one of his brothers was, or something like that. And their dad came in, my Lolo came in and was so angry that they were still playing the guitar, he broke it in front of them, and like. Kind of, you know, was just so against it. Even if my dad was like drumming his fingers and like making a beat, my Lolo would say, like, “Stop that, like, it’s so noisy,” or like, they just– anything with music, he disapproved of. So for it to amount to a new life in Canada, I think was just so satisfying. And a great way to… see it all wrap up. It was all meant to be.

KZ

I think… I mean, I think there’s a lot of things to say with that. But I think we’re I’ll go for now is I, I guess I like that you framed it in this way in which… Yeah, kind of like, there’s different layers to kind of unpacking what it means specifically to immigrate, but not only that, and kind of like the questions around like, what does it mean to immigrate as like a Filipino? But also like, what does it mean to immigrate as a Filipino, as a musician? I think it’s such a particular thread that we don’t get to see very often– You’re right in kind of pointing out that it’s a very unique pathway. It is a very unique kind of like, skill that then gets kind of like credited for like, that’s how they’re building their life.

KZ

And, yeah, that’s so fascinating that you’re bringing up the way that your Lolo had reacted to things, I think my understanding and like, maybe even some of my lived experiences of like, how older generations treat music and the arts, we can be very traditionalist in that sense of like, if we want you– Yeah, like in the same mind frame of, like, we want you to find success by being stable. And like, being stable means like this very direct, kind of, like, correlation to jobs that feel the most secure that literally, like you have hard evidence like accountant is literally like working and like crunching the numbers, right. So like, you can see it like, plain as day. But then music is like this nebulous thing where it’s just like, yeah, it just feels like such a maybe like a binary or like they’re very polarized against each other. Um, and I think it’s really special, honestly, that um, like your dad, kind of like, yeah, like, kind of like as, like with him and his siblings kind of had, um, um, yeah, just yeah, it just like had had that distinct choice, I think, to kind of see it through in this way.

KZ

Yeah, I think that’s what I’ll say to that. I feel like I have a lot of other things that we could grab on to there. But um, yeah, maybe do you have anything that that brings up for you? Just like maybe reflecting back on like, how that idea shifts through the generations and how your family has seen? And like maybe like, either the emotional arc of that or just like what you think where do you think you stand as the generations have gone by?

GE

Yeah, I think it took me a long time to realize how fortunate I am to have been born here. I always, growing up, just kind of took it for granted because I thought, “Oh, this is where I live. It’s all I know. And this is my life. I don’t know much else.” And so you know, of course I still did experience that classic like his child of immigrants struggles of like, you know […]– I was very fortunate to have English be one of my first languages, so that was very natural for me, going to school and everything, but… Despite all of that, I think my parents are very traditional in some senses as well. They carry some ideas from their parents too. But they are, because of their… Because of the beginning that they made for themselves here in Canada, they’re open minded in many other ways. So they didn’t expect my career to be a very strict and secure route. It could be, it could be something artsy. They encouraged me to do lots of things, actually, they put me in all kinds of lessons. I grew up going to dance classes, I did dance competitively, I competed in lots of shows, and I, I loved singing, and I was in choir and I took swimming lessons, I took skating lessons, my brother, my younger brother was always put into some kind of sport like soccer or Tae Kwon Do and a bunch of things– They really encouraged us to explore fun, creative things outside of… Accounting, or, laughing you know, the typical, like, you’ve got to be a lawyer, you’ve got to be a doctor. I never heard that from my parents once. And I’m so fortunate for that. And really lucky and grateful for that.

GE

But I would say, yeah, just continuing with the late realization that I had taken these things for granted. I think another part about my parents immigration story was when they were in Prince drt… I might have mentioned this to you, when we were having coffee that day, I can’t remember if I did or not, but. When they were living there, they were still working at the restaurant that performing at the restaurant, that they, their friend owned. And there was a[n] agent, like a government agent, I can’t remember the term or their title– an immigration officer, pretty much– who was trying to kick them out, essentially, because they felt that… This officer felt that my dad and his brothers were taking away musician jobs from Canadians. He felt that the work they were doing was not unique, it was not important enough to, you know, require a visa to work here. Which again, ties back to like, yeah, music is a kind of subjective thing. It’s a tricky career to, to navigate like that. So my parents and– My family, my dad had to petition. They had the whole city, and like, they had a lot of supporters saying, like, “No, we want them to stay. And we think they have a case.” And they had to sort of prove their worth and explain, like, “Find us another Canadian band that can sing songs and perform in English and Tagalog and Korean and Japanese and Chinese. Find us a band, a Canadian band that can play songs from, ranging from like, top 40’s hits to like, old disco– 60’s/70’s disco, or like, 80’s/90’s rock, or all these different things. They played every genre, every instrument– My dad can play, the drums, the guitar, the keys, he sings, they’re so versatile and resourceful. And as immigrants they had to be, right? They had to really know how to make things work. And they had such a large appeal to the community at the time. And so they were at risk of being sent back essentially to the Philippines. And I think upon hearing that news, when I was a bit older, I was still young, like a kid, but thinking, “Oh my gosh, maybe I wouldn’t have been born in Canada at all. I could have been born in the Philippines. I wonder what life would have looked for me there.” Um… I think that also had a really big impact on how I viewed by parents and what they had to go through in order to stay and build a life here.

KZ

I’m gonna go back to one quick detail, just to clarify. Did you say that they petitioned with the city? And like, they did– Did you say that they also got like community support for that? Like, I know that this isn’t like, your direct story, so like, you’ve heard this from your parents, but I wonder what that must have been like, right? To… Because like I– Yeah, maybe I don’t have like any timelines clear, but I can only imagine like the impact that the must have made, already having so much support to then appeal to the city in that way and be like, these are the skills that we’ve brought. This is the range that, like– It’s giving range, you know? Like, and […] as you’ve said so– it was very well put, essentially, to be like, it’s not just the fact that they are immigrants. It’s not just like the simplified narrative of like, they’re taking away jobs from Canadians. It’s like, no, like, we have a rightful place to be here. And like we are bringing value and like, we are bringing real things that not everybody else is able to offer, not just to industry, but like to, to the community as a whole. Right?

KZ

So it’s, I think it’s bringing me back to kind of like, there’s this Filipino value that I guess I heard a lot when I was growing up. It’s called tiyaga, I guess it’s spelled t-i-y-a-g-a, tiyaga. And the way that my parents would describe this to me is just like, it’s not quite resilience. There’s almost like perseverance tied into it as well. But kind of just like that, that spirit of like, “No, we’re here for a reason. Like we do the things that we do for a reason, and we’re going to see it through.” I think that’s the essence of what I’m hearing from this story in particular. And it’s yeah, just kind of goes to show that like when you know what your path is, and when you’ve really stuck to it with that kind of resolve. Like that’s, I think that’s like such a powerful throughline that I hear across a lot of people’s migration stories, but particular to our community is just, like […] That’s the bread and butter of like, what it means to kind of like, grow up with that as a foundation of like, our identities, really. So yeah, I love that story, too. Thank you so much for sharing as well.

GE

Of course! Yeah, to confirm your point. Yes, they did have a petition, and they even had the mayor of that city or town sign off to it as well. They had a huge amount of supporters. And there are even news clips, they were on TV. I think they even– Yeah, I have the clip somewhere, too. I could probably try to find them and send them to you. But they were interviewed by local outlets, I think like papers, maybe even, so it was, it was a big thing. And thankfully, of course, they were successful. And were able to stay, and the government agent was like, “Yeah, we don’t have– There’s no Canadian band to replace them.” And so, like, exactly in this way. And so they stayed on. And that was a huge deal, it was a really scary thing, I think at the time. Yeah, I love that value, too, that you’re, you’re saying. I think it captures the essence of that story perfectly.

KZ

Yeah, that’s so wonderful. And yeah, that would be incredible. If you had kind of like the clippings or like any, any kind of like artifacts from that– It’s so interesting to kind of like have maybe it’s not physical, but just like have a tangible kind of outcome of like what that looked like, and especially very early on in their immigrant experience. And having that tie in. I… can I clarify maybe like when this might have been? Do you have like maybe a rough estimate of perhaps when they immigrated, but then also how long they were in Canada before they got to Vancouver?

GE

This is where my memory gets fuzzy. I’m going to hazard a guess and say the 80’s was when they immigrated. And then… laughs Oh my gosh. I… I was born in 1998, and so I’m gonna guess they came to Vancouver sometime in the 90’s. Yeah, that, those were very rough numbers.

KZ 34:10

Even that is helpful. Thank you so much. Yeah, great. Um… Cool, I think… I think we’re gonna do a hard switch and maybe move on to some of these other questions here. Let me get back to them real quick. Um, hmm. Okay, maybe we can move into some of this stuff. I mean, yeah, maybe like coming back to Vancouver.

KZ 34:46

I know that you’d mentioned earlier that the church setting and the family setting were two of the biggest places that you were connecting with culture and connecting with maybe your Filipino identity. I wonder if there are specific places or neighborhoods– even just like, if you have like, very specifics, that’s cool as well. But I wonder if there’s any, like places that come to mind when you think about where Filipino community is, especially having like, been born and raised in Greater Vancouver? And especially because you’ve kind of lived in different areas of Greater Vancouver? Yeah, I think I’d just be curious to see how you would map it.

GE 35:35

Yeah, great question. I think, hmm. It’s so interesting, because, as you were saying, most of my experiences with larger groups of Filipinos is either like family or at church, especially growing up. But I think, as I grew older, I saw a lot of my Filipino friends in Surrey, especially, who I either went to school with back– way back, and they continue to go to like a public secondary school or they went to different things like that. I would say, I don’t directly know all the people involved. But I know of communities in Surrey, specifically, that are Filipino business owners, such as a barber shop called […] Hades? I don’t know if I’m pronouncing that correctly, but I have a friend there who goes by Lucky, and she is a barber there. And I believe majority of the barbers and the business owners are also Filipino. And so of course, the customer base is also largely Filipino. And speaking of the kids I went to school with, they loved dance. I had a lot of Filipino friends back when I was younger that loved to dance, and I also did, too. I didn’t get so heavily involved in the crews and like organizations they did, I was more in like the studios, like, outside of school-related studio. But there was, I have a couple of friends that were involved in Praise Team, which was also a huge Filipino presence, super successful in the community, you know, amazing crew was born out of that. So yeah, those are the two that come to mind, I would say.

KZ 37:52

These also sound very specific to Surrey. Am I right in saying that? (nods) Yeah. Yeah, that’s so interesting. I mean, I also grew up kind of knowing of Praise Team– I was very peripheral to maybe the dance community, but, I think because I grew up at St. Pat’s I was kind of just like hearing a lot about many things. So it’s cool to kind of hear that call back and be like, yeah, that was definitely like a Filipino presence, that maybe our generation especially had grown up with locally, that we’re just like, Oh, yeah, we know that we can rely on seeing other people that are like us that kind of, like, get it, you know? So that’s, that’s cool. I love that you’ve mentioned those.

KZ 38:38

I’m also thinking of maybe what it… Yeah, like, if there was any kind of transition, or if, kind of expanding on this question and expanding on the map, did any of this change when you moved to UBC? And like, especially as you mentioned that you had moved away from family for the first time, I wonder if, like, connections to culture and connections to community had changed for you in any ways with that transition?

GE 39:11

Oh, absolutely. Moving to UBC– I mean, BC or Vancouver, and Greater Vancouver, I should say, is already so diverse. And so I feel blessed to have met so many people from all types of backgrounds and walks of life growing up, but university was a whole different beast. Because it’s not just Greater Vancouver, you’re talking about an international stage. You know, it’s, it’s so many more people from all around the world. And so, I became friends with so many different types of people and I definitely met lots of Filipino people as well, funnily enough, in the same spaces surrounded, like within music or dance. I loved Blank Vinyl Project, BVP, which is where I knew you were very involved in and Mari was, too. And then Matt loved music– Sorry, I’m just saying all these names because they you know, they’re, you know these people. And, and Mikey as well, right? Like he’s an incredible, just all of you guys were amazing musicians and it’s so interesting to think that we were all Filipino, but we’re all connected by this thing, this music and the club that… That was… all about music, right? And performances and stuff. And then there was also UDC… (Oh my gosh, I’m forgetting the actual name, I think it’s Unlimited Dance Club? U&G, or no, that’s a crew. It was a dance club. It was a hip hop dance club at UBC–) Also had quite a few Filipino members of the club, and I sort of got to know them as well. Um, not too well, but whenever I attended class, I felt a sense of kinship, laughs I guess, of like, pkay, like, I know, this is a space where like, Filipinos are known to be great singers and dancers, right? So I wasn’t surprised to see members of the community in those types of spaces.

KZ 41:34

Yeah, yeah. I love that. You mentioned the word kinship, because that’s definitely how I felt. And it’s interesting that, I mean, yeah, we kind of met through the circles of BVP. And it was really fascinating that, I guess the way that you phrase it specifically was like, we were all Filipino, right? But like, it was the music first. And then we happen to be Filipino, I think it might have happened in that order, in the same sense that it was like, just the sheer diversity of like, BVP, in particular, was so many international students. I think every year that the team kind of formed, we would realize that half of our team was international students. So like, the turnaround was pretty frequent. And it was also just like, it was kind of that default strategy of like, yeah, the music comes first. And then somehow the culture, like, the culture kind of, like, permeates and like, become like, those are two and two, they kind of come together. In that sense. I think I really had a lot more of like, cultural awareness, maybe just by like, being in that team and kind of being immersed in those ways, getting to know all the friends that we did in those spaces. So yeah, I think, again, like a lot of a lot of residents there. It isn’t lost on me that we also met through these channels, right? And, yeah.

KZ 43:02

So whenever I think about being Filipino, and like being on campus, specifically, it was a really interesting change. As someone who grew up in the city, and then was still kind of in the city, but felt so, kind of like, distant at the same time? Maybe it was because UBC was so pushed far away from like, city centers and like, the places and like the actual neighborhoods that we had grown up with, right? But like, yeah, maybe it was either the distance, the literal physical distance, or maybe just the gathering of all these other influences at the same time. But yeah, yeah, just like kind of echoing some of the sentiments of like, it was a, really, much– It opened the floodgates for culture, in a very, in a very broad sense.

KZ 43:56

And, yeah, maybe that makes me think of like, the phrasing of like, obstacles and opportunities. Sometimes there’s… Like, especially when we ask questions about culture, or ask questions about like, identity, which is so personal, sometimes it’s the same concept that is both an obstacle and an opportunity. And I wonder if you have had any of these experiences at any part of your life really where it was just like, Yeah, this is maybe like, a pro or con or both of like, how was I maybe contending with how I understood identity, how I understood culture and where I fit within it.

GE 44:48

Yeah, such a great point. Oh, man, where do I start? I think it was tricky… In two ways, because I had two cultures laughs influencing me at the same time, ‘cause I had my, my mom’s Korean side, and then my dad’s Filipino side. And so obviously, that was great. I mean, I loved having so much in my life to enrich, you know, me and my environment culturally, right. I was. I was really blessed with that, but I think… Obstacle and opportunity, hmm… I don’t know if this is an obstacle, but one thing that does come to mind is that I was able to visit Korea… many times growing up. I think I flew back with my family, maybe… Oh, my gosh, four, or maybe even five times in my life? So we’ve visited quite a bit, because my mom’s whole side of the family is still there. She has three brothers, still living in Korea and her parents, when they were still with us, were also living in Korea. She was the only one that left and so all of her nieces, nephews, sisters in law, they were all still there. So we had reasons to visit. But we never visited the Philippines and I still haven’t visited the Philippines. And I had always wanted to, there was this yearning because I felt like there was a part of me that I didn’t really understand because they never got to see the place that I’m supposed to be connected to.

GE 46:49

And the reason for that was… One of the reasons for that was because all of my family’s here, my dad brought everybody over. And you know, at first, it wasn’t all all the uncles and aunts and cousins and everything. It was a long process. It was a lot of family members. And so eventually now everyone’s here. But for that reason, it’s kind of like, Oh, we don’t need to spend all this money to go fly halfway across the world and see people that are all in Canada, you know.

GE 47:26

But the other reason for that, I think, that my dad has never really been shy about expressing is, he doesn’t always have the fondest memories of the Philippines, I think he really wanted to move to Canada, to get away from the Philippines. And I am sure there’s a sort of love there for it in his own way. But he grew up in Manila, and he doesn’t explicitly tell us any particular details, but I do get the sense that he’s seen a lot of things and grew up a lot around a lot of painful and difficult lifestyles and stories. You know, it is a big city full of extreme wealth and extreme poverty and all everything in between. So he wanted, he always talks about the Philippines as though it’s a really dangerous place, which I’m sure comes from his own experiences, but isn’t really representative of the whole truth. And so that’s kind of kept us from going there all this time, but. I would say the reason obstacle/opportunity brought this up in my mind is because we’re going next month for the first time in our whole, in my whole life! We’ll be going at the end of February. So yeah, it’s crazy to think about because now my dad is 70… Oh, he might not want me saying this! laughs He’s now in his 70’s. Um, and I think he’s now realizing like, you know what, I should go with my children to see the Philippines and show them where I grew up and what was important to me and this side of their identity and their culture, so super excited for that. It was an obstacle for a long time, but now it’s an opportunity.

KZ 49:32

I’m so excited for you. Oh my goodness, it’s gonna be so incredible. Oh, wow. I think, I also just– The synchronicity of like finally getting to interview as well, like we could have, like, we could have done this at any point, because it’s been in the talks for a while now. But how fascinating and also like the, the time has never been riper. Um… Yeah, maybe like not to make light of that. But it’s so um, I’m so so excited for you. Um, can I ask maybe like, what the plan is like, where are you going to be in the Philippines? How long are you staying there?

GE 50:15

Yeah, absolutely. We are going to Manila. And then for several days, we’ll also see Boracay, short trip there. But we’ll be there, I believe, approximately two weeks in total. I actually don’t know the exact plan since I’ve been so busy with moving and figuring out my life while they’ve been planning, and so I haven’t been able to connect with my parents yet about what they have, but I’m sure it’ll be incredible. I don’t, I don’t know what to expect at all, really.

GE 50:51

And another thing I guess– Sorry if I’m, if it’s okay for me to continue– But another thing that ties really strangely into all of this is… You know that I just moved to a different place here in Vancouver, but I used to live with roommates that also immigrated from the Philippines to attend school at UBC and SFU. And two of my roommates were from Cebu. And one of my roommates I forget the name of her island, but it was another smaller island in the Philippines (Ahh, I feel so bad for forgetting the name.) But they also have such different experience[s] of the Philippines. Because they’re different parts of the– Like, it’s such a huge country, right, or, like, there’s just so many small islands, and it’s an island nation. And so every part of it, although united, is so different. And so, you know, living with them for the past year and a half, I’ve been able to hear their stories of growing up there, living there, and… what they love about it and what they found difficult there, or their views on so many different things, you know, politically or economically, all of it, culturally.

GE 52:18

And having it all lead up to this moment where I’m actually going to go, I’ve got now these two very different perspectives, one of my dad’s, which is maybe a little bit more negatively leaning or just a bit more critical. And then another side that’s very recent and fresh, like they they’ve still visit regularly, and they have family there. So they know what it’s like now, and so I can’t wait to see it with both of those. In my mind, you know?

KZ 52:54

There’s so much to tap into, there’s so much potential, and, Oh my God, I cannot wait to hear more about that experience. And yeah, I can only wish you the best because that’s, I can only imagine will be such like an emotional experience. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I don’t want to stray too far from… Yeah, maybe it’s not like there’s a script. But like, I’d have maybe like one or two more questions just to wrap. But oh, my God! To dish with you at a time when you go through it, and like, eventually, when you come back, I can’t wait to catch up after that. So I’m looking forward to that for you.

KZ 53:40

And yeah, kind of just coming back around to your roommates– I didn’t actually know that they were, I guess you’d call them like Filipino international students? Yeah, so like, kind of tying back to our earlier conversation about being at UBC or like, just being in post-secondary around, um, yeah, kind of the distinction between… I’ll call it like being born in the Philippines and then being raised… (Wait, am I saying that right? No.) Like being? (Actually no, I’m just losing it now.) It’s being born in the Philippines and like being born in Canada, and like it, what that like, what those different trajectories look like. And then especially, UBC is like one of those big places where it’s like, you have both domestic students, people who grew up here all our lives, and then you also have people who look like us, but then have very different experiences. And therefore like, just very different, like identity construction as a whole, right? So how interesting it is to kind of hear that you guys had all convened and like lived together and not only that, but like got to share stories and like got to have fellowship and all of these different ways and connect on all these different levels. Yeah, kind of just makes me wonder… And like maybe tying back in again to the mapping of it as well, and especially because you’ve just moved as well, it brings me to this question where we’ll maybe start to close. But um, I guess it’s a two parter, how I’ll phrase it. The first one being like, is Vancouver, Greater Vancouver, or Canada– like, is any part of that or concept– is this place home? And maybe, if so, or if not, like, what is, like, what is your concept of home? How would you personally define that for yourself? And what emotions might come out of that?

GE 55:53

Wow, what a powerful question. Man. I would say, yes. Canada, Vancouver, Greater Vancouver, is home to me. And I say that, because… In a lot of ways, it’s still all I know, as of right now. But who knows, right? I could go to the Philippines next month, and be like, “Wow, this feels like home, too. This also feels like a part of me.” And when I visited Korea to there were parts of me, I was like, “Wow, this feels very comfortable. And this feels like me.”

GE 56:44

And so, home to me… can be… anywhere that… feels safe. I think home equates to safety. And a lot of the words we used today, like kinship, or connection, or relationships, and family and friends, and all of these… you know, what do you call it? Inter… inter-relational, or… (There’s a term for this. I’m losing it, too!) But yeah, I think home is where you feel safe, and the people that you love are. And so for that reason, that would probably most strongly be… here for me. Since my parents and my brother and my family’s here. But yeah, who knows home could home could be, wherever in the future, I don’t know where it’s gonna end up being.

KZ 57:57

Yeah, I think what I’m gathering from that is I’m like, home doesn’t necessarily have to be a place. I think what I’m hearing the strongest from you actually is like home is in my people. And like, home is like, wherever my people are. That’s kind of just like, where I plant myself, you know? And, yeah, like not quite tied down to a place. I know that we’ve kind of done some mapping across Greater Vancouver and like, where we might expect to see some aspects or like, some glimmers of home. But it’s really just like, it kind of comes back to the centeredness of like, who we see. And like, who we want around us the most, I think, at the end of it. And I think through that relationship is– what I’m gathering– like, where, where the community is where the culture is, like, all of that builds on the concept of home. But, yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s a beautiful definition. And thank you so much for sharing. And yeah, I guess we’re gonna wrap up very soon. So is there anything that we haven’t discussed yet that you’d maybe like to cover? Any other kind of either cultural experiences or maybe even like anecdotes or stories that come to mind before we wrap?

GE 59:35

I can’t think of any off the top of my head. But yeah, I would say it would probably be tested. And there before I’d Yeah, that would that wouldn’t be the strongest end the home quote, which you wrapped so beautifully.

KZ 59:57

Okay! Maybe I have one last follow-up because I had also– This is like a little bit more, it is a little off the script, but is one of my kind of… Kind of building off of one of the ways that I have found connection to culture and like maybe my own definitions of home. I’m curious, especially given that you’ve… So like you said, that you visited South Korea before, you have family out there as well. And kind of contrasting to your experiences of like, all of your dad’s side of the family being in and around Vancouver. I wonder if language ties into any of your cultural experiences. Especially because like, there’s at least three different languages to kind of work with. And then you I’m also remembering that you mentioned how your dad and his siblings also performed in a bunch of different languages. Yeah, maybe just like a general question of like, how language might tie into your own cultural experiences and your identity?

GE 1:01:06

Yeah, but languages, aw man. To provide context, I can speak Korean– So English is my first language, and I’m fluent reading, writing, all of that good stuff. But Korean, I can speak, and I can read and write, but… Very basic, and it’s, I’m quite a slow reader, and my writing would probably look like a first grader’s, and my speech is quite conversational– I, I’m… I’m not, uh… super proficient. Um, my Tagalog, which is what my dad’s side of the family speaks, is sort of non-existent? When it comes to speaking, I can imitate my family members and put on an accent, but, and then speak English in that way, and that’s the best I can do. And certain keywords, you know, here and there. But I can understand pretty well. So if I hear my dad talking on the phone to his brother, I can, I can get an understanding of what their conversation is about.

GE 1:02:19

And I think a big reason for that was because… My mom… I think it’s just more common to pick up your mother’s tongue, like so your mom’s language. And what’s funny too, is when my until my brother was born, I was in home videos that my parents took when I was really young, I was speaking fluent Korean, it was just natural. But then my brother was born. And I was three years old. And from that point on, I think, I sort of stopped speaking Korean, and I spoke to my younger brother way more in English. And so that took over. So I lost a bit of the Korean. And now, of course I’m sitting here, later, regretting like, “Oh, I wish I absorbed both languages.” And then of course, I took French throughout elementary, high school, kind of have that, not the best. laughs I can, like, get by and understand. But um, yeah, with language… I would say…

GE 1:03:26

Yeah, it’s crazy. Because language opened up the music world even more for, for our family too. And that was like, the biggest way that my dad and I connected to his music even to this day, because they would perform– like I was saying earlier, in all these languages, and… I even listen to music and languages growing up that I didn’t really hear people around me speaking in. Like, I loved bossa nova laughs when I was younger, and I loved hearing Portuguese, and I loved hearing French, you know, jazz standards, and just, you know, so many different things. Um… Yeah, I, I wish I learned more is my takeaway, I think when it comes to language, but I guess you could say it’s never too late.

KZ 1:03:26

I was exactly going to say that laughs it’s never too late. And I hear what you’re saying about like the regrets of like, “Oh, why didn’t I just have all of them from the jump?” But that is a very… Like, I’ll say it for myself as well, like, you’re not alone. And that’s most definitely… um, it’s more common, I think, in our like, in the Filipino community than maybe even other Asian communitiesm I’m finding. And I only know that because that’s the stuff that I’m researching right now. So that’s kind of, like, my addendum into kind of this conversation. I look at a lot of things kind of from the language slant as well, and see if there’s any further connections to like how we understand culture and then by extension understand ourselves.

KZ 1:05:10

And I love that you mentioned the, the genres, and how that opens you up to other languages, because most definitely. And like, I even know that there’s this one Filipino singer, whose like, main genre was bossa nova. And I only know her– It’s like, it made me think that bossa nova was like Filipino, like, full on. I think her name is Sitti? I’ll find it for you later, after, after we get off of this. But like, literally like for, for a brief period of my life, and like with my context of like, I was singing my whole life, was kind of around, like, found Filipino community through singing and performing. Like, there are certain genres that I was just like, oh, yeah, I hear that voice is definitely Filipino. And it was like, other languages, other genres. I was just conflating it all in my head. But like, my tiny brain being like, “Yeah, if that’s a Filipino singing it, then of course, it’s Filipino.” You know, so it kind of just like goes to show how big the music as a cultural thing, and also as a language thing, like all of those kind of intersect in terms of how we understand ourselves, and like, how we approach understanding other things kind of from the music lens. Yeah, yeah, it’s huge. And I think that’s… A lot of what I experienced, I think definitely reflects in what you’ve shared. So yeah, thank you again. Any last…

GE 1:06:41

I had one more thought before… um, I forget. But… (Oh, my gosh, I just had it. Okay, no, it’s back. I’m like, how would I start it…) What you’re saying about thinking a certain type of music was Filipino– For the longest time, there were Japanese words that I was certain were Filipino. I thought, chottomatte was Filipino! Or like, I can’t think of anything! But just because my dad would say them, and he would speak to us, growing up, in Tagalog… You know, periodically, certain things. Or if you couldn’t find the English words for it, he would just say it […] in Tagalog and… Because they, my dad and his brothers, when they were playing music, but because they lived in Japan for so many years, they also of course, picked up some Japanese.

GE 1:07:35

And I might have told you this story as well before, Kathleen, but… The coolest thing– I think my coolest story about language in my family is hearing my Filipino dad speak over the phone to my Korean grandfather in Japanese,and that was how they communicated with each other, because… My dad lived in Japan and my, my Korean grandfather lived through the Japanese occupation of South Korea. And so he, in a lot of ways, like, picked up Japanese from the war, and… It’s just crazy, because I couldn’t my dad and grandfather couldn’t understand each other too well, because my grandfather doesn’t speak English. And my dad doesn’t speak Korean and or, you know, it just didn’t work. So… They would just kind of have conversations in Japanese.

GE 1:08:33

And that I think, also speaks to another like just the Filipino trait of… You need to learn something? Like, you’ll take it on, you’ll do it. You’ll, you’ll do whatever you need to in order, in order to thrive and like, grow in, in wherever you’re planted or whatever you end up choosing to do. So… Yeah, language is so crazy.

KZ 1:09:00

Yeah, and kind of knowing what… It’s so fascinating to see like, how the… Like, where the commonality is. Because I mean, even for me, like, sometimes speaking to my grandma, who lived in the Philippines– For quick context, very quick: Both sides of my family are from the same small hometown away from Manila. So like, my Lola on my dad’s side… Like her first language was their home language, like, in their town where they grew up. And then she didn’t know Tagalog because they didn’t introduce that in education ‘til way later, so she knew English more than she needed Tagalog. So it’s really, it was a really weird like, whiplash for me to be like, “Oh, I don’t know how to speak in my parents’ mother tongue, but because Lola knows English more than she knows Tagalog– I was trying to speak to her, essentially, in Tagalog first, but then they’re like, “No, no, cut that.” laughs Like, “She’ll, she’ll understand your English because she knows that more than she knows Tagalog.” And it just blew my mind. I was just like, “What? Not all Filipinos know Tagalog? That’s really strange,” to like, my, my childhood self.

KZ 1:10:10

But sometimes it is, it really is that and like… Like where you’re making that connection of like grow wherever you’re planted– Sometimes that language, and like, where the commonalities are… Sometimes that’s just the result of like, all of these like enriched experiences and like… It’s precisely like, blooming wherever you’re planted, and then using those resources, and then have, like having that ability to further extend. You know? I feel like there’s always that like expansiveness to not just the cultural things, but also just like the adaptability, almost like a chameleon-like sense of like, you’re just able to be so fluid and like, move with the changes.

KZ 1:10:54

So yeah, I think that’s beautiful. And I think that’s our whole interview, Grace. Thank you so much, again, for your time for your energy and for sharing all of your stories. It’s been such a privilege to be witness. And again, all the best for moving to your new place. All the best again for, oh my gosh, your upcoming trip to the Philippines. I only hope that that will bring all the good emotions, all of, all of the emotions and… Yeah, all the best for you and whatever you got going on next.

GE 1:11:35

Thank you so much. And thank you for such an amazing opportunity to partake in this interview and this project. Amazing job with the questions and leading, I felt so like, heard and understood. So thank you.

KZ 1:11:53

Thank you! I’m gonna stop the recording now.

GE 1:11:56

Okay, cool.