Kuwentong Pamamahay

Transcript in progress

KZ

Great. So Jotham, the first question is to tell me a little bit about you and your background.

JV

My name is Jotham. I was born in Vancouver, 2001, October. And I am Filipino. And my parents immigrated to Vancouver– I believe my dad moved out here and the ’80s or ’90s, but my, my mom came in the […] 1990s ‘cause that’s when she was in her 20s, early 20s. I think– I’m currently, I’m 22 years old. And I believe my mom came to Vancouver at my age.

KZ

Whoa.

JV

So the perspective, there’s very, we can get into that later. But I guess just a bit about myself, like, I grew up Catholic, but I don’t really practice as much these days. I graduate– I just finished at UBC, this last semester. And I do photography and videography. And that is something I’m trying to pursue at the moment as my career.

KZ

Incredible. Awesome. There’s, there’s lots, kind of, there’s many different directions, I think, that we can go into with this. But I guess we’ll go with the strongest lead that you were kind of cluing in on there, which is that your mom moved kind of around the age that you are at now. And just to clarify, did your parents meet in Vancouver? Or did they move together? I mean, it seems like they’ve moved at different times. So maybe just a little, a little distinction there. And yeah, if you have any thoughts to share about what it feels like to reflect on that piece?

JV

Okay, sure. Well, my parents met in Vancouver. […] They’re from different parts of the Philippines. My dad is from Bacolod. I don’t know like, the physical regions. And then my mom is from Pampanga, which is where like, which is where I’d be when I’m in the Philippines, like Clark area.

But yeah, I think like– wait, sorry, what piece did you want me to reflect on again?

KZ

I guess because you were mentioning that you’re around the age that your mom had immigrated to, to Canada?

JV

Mm-hmm. I feel like a lot… When I, when I say that, and […] when she says that to me, it gives me a lot of perspective. Like […] it makes me really appreciate my mom in a way because it’s like wow, like, you know, you taking care of me. This is how I see the world but like, for you. Like you really, she really did that. Like she, she really moved and in order to support like, our family in the Philippines.

I feel like, and that’s called like, a lot of that is called– I learned in, like, sociology, or just in courses before– it’s called a transnational family, where like, one member goes to from a third world country will move to a first world country to make more money and just give it back and barely have enough for themselves to survive. But it’s more of just like helping the people back home. And that’s what my mom was doing. Until today really, like, and it shocks me. I mean, maybe not as much as anymore, my family back– I don’t know, they’re doing well. But back then, all of my mom’s siblings, because she’s the oldest woman […] in the sibling group, so […] the eldest brother and her, the eldest sister, both immigrated here and worked. And then they just worked a lot. And… and my mom still works a lot. It’s, it’s something I think about a lot myself, because I’m like, wow, how do you do it?

laughs I do hate it when Filipino elders kind of say stuff like, “Oh, you don’t know what we did to get here, the sacrifice for you to have a good life.” Like, that phrase… I personally, get– Sorry, I’m off the center [of the screen]. But I personally get really frustrated at that statement, because it’s like, but our experiences are different. I keep thinking that, but in reality, […] I do think there […] is a lot of meaning to that sacrifice, like my mom did a lot. There’s a lot of things my mom wanted to do that she probably wanted to do, but chose […] another path, for other people. I feel like that’s a very selfless thing. And it’s such a complex understanding, because then– and as a Filipino, you know, too, like, it kind of leads to feelings of just like, pride and just, “Oh, but you have it so easy here. Why are you doing this?” I don’t know, there’s a lot of little dynamics like that. But overall, I do think that the biggest thing out of that is, I am shocked about how much my mom has done for like her family at my age.

And especially back in the 90’s, it wasn’t as easy. There’s no just like, you can’t just get a phone with data and Google Maps wherever you need to go. Like my mom had to figure everything out. You know, without like that modern technology that makes a lot of things easier. So it just really, really makes me think like, wow, you know? I hope that made sense.

KZ

No, 100%. I mean, I’m definitely tracking. A lot of that kind of resonates with things that I’ve experienced and heard from other members of our community. And, yeah, especially when we get to our 20’s, it’s seemingly the age where– You’re basically not alone in that experience, I find, because it’s like, we kind of really have to grapple with maybe what our generation is considering like, our quarter-life crisis, or approaching that even and like, what the 20’s is like, […] at this current day and age, but then also being like, but they did this and it was “worse,” or just like, there were just so many more hurdles, and so much more stacked against them.

And there’s a lot to say about the labor piece as well, because it’s just, how do you even begin to navigate that? And I only understand that– Especially as we were just talking about, just graduating from school and being like, what’s next after that. How do you even navigate going to a completely other country? Across the world? Right? Like, how do you… That just isn’t a tangible thought in my mind with where I’m at in my life right now. You know what I mean? So I totally relate, I think, to where you’re coming from.

And it makes me wonder as well, I guess, in the case of your mom, I guess I heard you mention: did her brother come with her? Did they immigrate at the same time? And I guess where I’m going with that is like, did she have support in terms of knowing community connections or knowing other people when she immigrated?

JV

Yeah, my mom… I believe I had family here already. And to this day, I have family slowly migrate over, since my mom. Like, everybody. But my… Yeah. My mom had… I’m trying to think how to explain this, you know how it’s like Filipino families are so big, right?

But my grandmother, my mom’s mother, has a lot of siblings. So I have a lot of great aunts and uncles, which make my family tree very strange. But they lived here, I believe, before my mom or around the same time as my mom. So when they were raising their families, my mom would live with them and take care of the kids, and then just do her work.

So I feel like that, I really feel like Filipinos are a very communal people. And I feel like they would only make that decision to move– It’s a calculated decision. I feel like my mom made that decision with– I feel like a lot of people in general just immigrate as an opportunity. And especially if you already have family or established people that will want to see you and spend time with you. Like, you would feel inclined to move right? Because it’s– yeah. So I feel like, yeah, I’d say my mom had her family, and she– my mom’s quite extroverted, so she’ll make, she’s good at making friends. Or like, at least just people that she can just speak to at work, stuff like that. Yeah.

KZ

Yeah, that’s awesome to hear. And definitely your point about family trees being strange. I think everybody’s is laughs just with the sheer nature.

Just a quick aside, I did an anthropology class at UBC. And they made me, it was a kinship, kind of like how do… I mean, I won’t go into details, but just like, was talking about families, had to draw out a family tree, I interviewed my parents for it, and was just like, okay, like, on one meta sense, like, I’m understanding my family trees, but also this was so laughs This was such an exercise, because there’s so many– Even just across, three generations, by the time you get to the bottom, you’re like, where are you? Like, where am I in the context of so many cousins and so many different branches of it, right? So everyone’s, I think, once you get to the extended family part is, is kind of janky. But I think that’s pretty characteristic of what a normal Filipino family looks like, anyway.

JV

100%.

KZ

Yeah. Um, can I ask you where or which neighborhood you currently live in and how long you’ve been there?

JV

Yeah. Should I go in order of where I’ve lived out here?

KZ

Yeah.

JV

Okay, so… Let me think. So I grew up in Vancouver. I was born and raised in Vancouver, East Vancouver. I lived in my cousin’s house when I was a baby. So, and she lived around like, Kensington area, what’s that area called? Is that called Kensington? Like Little Mountain? I lived around King Edward and Inverness. laughs And then I moved to Mount Pleasant. I lived in Main and 12th for a very short period of my life. That’s pretty crazy, right?

KZ

I didn’t know that!

JV

Yeah, I lived in Main and 12th from like, ages four to maybe like kindergarten. And I didn’t really like the school. I went to Nightingale, I didn’t really like that school, so my mom and my dad, so the– I lived in the condo, like. I lived a– You know where this is. You know the Chevron?

KZ

Yeah.

JV

I lived, like, across it. And there’s those, all those condos and stuff.

KZ

Gotchu. There’s like, a Barber and Co. there now.

JV

Yeah, behind that. I lived behind that.

KZ

Oh, understood. Okay.

JV

So that’s why I went to St. Pat’s and everything. Because I went to church right there, right?

But then I moved to South Van afterwards because my parents sold that spot on Main and 12th. And I still live in South Vancouver, I live on Knight Street. I live near David Thompson area, so that’s like Fraserview, it’s called Fraserview. And I’ve been living here since, I think I moved here in Grade One. So I was six, and I lived in this one house until I was 13, 14. Until my parents like, my parents split and like, when that happened, I lived, we lived in like a house with a basement. And then we lived downstairs of it for a while. It was pretty rough. A nd then when my parents split, I lived down there, just me and my mom, and then it’d be eventually, when the landlord of that house took it over […] we moved to where I currently am speaking to you. I’s like, two blocks from my previous home, so. Yeah, I grew up like, I’d say like Vancouver all my life. And it’s only been recently that I’ve started to explore outside of Vancouver.

KZ

Outside of Vancouver… What, what do you mean by exploring?

JV

Travelling, like, going to the US. I went to like, different places for music trips and stuff like that. Mm-hmm.

KZ

Just like traveling outside, just in general?

JV

I kind of mean, like, I mean, yeah, in other aspects, too. I’m in South Van a lot. So it’s only been recently too that I’ve been going to like, Langley, North Vancouver, more further out. I never really, I’m pretty, like… I usually tend to stick to where I am. But sometimes you have to go to other places, right?

KZ

Definitely. This feels relevant to say now, but I don’t think I’ve been around like, Brentwood, Burnaby, Burquitlam, Coquitlam. Like, I don’t think I’d spent so much of my childhood out there until I had my family members, like my cousins and stuff kind of moving out there. But also my partner and his family has lived there their whole lives. So it’s just like, I’ve never thought I’ve never taken the Millennium Line so many times until maybe in the past like year or two. And it was so fascinating to just be like, yeah, maybe the similar experience to how you’ve lived around Knight for most of your upbringing, and how kind of I’ve lived in Mount Pleasant and was just like, “Oh, I really feel like this is new, like a new part of the map for me,” even though it’s in the same part of the city.

JV

It is, that’s super true. Like, I mean, I’m in Burnaby a lot these days. But I agree, I recently went to Burquitlam and I was like, “Wow, this is nice. This is a nice place like…” laughs

KZ

Like, “Oh, I kind of get it now.” laughs

JV

I agree with that though. Like when you do… I feel like Vancouver is small physically, but I feel like everything just feels far. But it really isn’t that far. Like, you can drive over there pretty quick. Like, 25 minutes? That’s not bad. laughs It’s n ot bad.

KZ

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, the distance is, like, skewed, especially when you stay in the same neighborhood in Vancouver for quite a while. You’re just like, “Oh, wait, it’s not that bad.” Like, surprisingly not, not that bad at all.

I mean, yeah, that part that you said about Mount Pleasant actually was so surprising. It does seem like a small blip in your timeline, but […] it does connect the pieces to why you, why we met, effectively, at St. Pat’s.

JV

Yeah.

KZ

And yeah, I wonder if you want to maybe go into some of your experiences with St. Pat’s? Just because I know that was kind of our main crossroads to how we met. For context, and for the record, we met at what age? How old were we?

JV

I think I met you like, so. St. Pat’s is a church in Vancouver, like, in Mount Pleasant. And we met– Oh, we met at this youth summer camp.

KZ

Camp Leprechaun? laughs

JV

Yes. Camp Leprechaun. laughs That’s crazy!

And then you taught me piano. I think that’s the bigger portion for me. We hung out as kids, I think. Yeah, I believe our age gap is like three years.

KZ

Yes, that’s right.

JV

It is, right? So like, I think when I was in elementary school, you were like one of the youth leaders of the groups, like, in summer camp, I believe? I was like in Grade Four or Five, and then you’re like Grade Eight. Right?

KZ

Yeah, that’s right.

JV

And then when I started to play piano, and I had, I used to take– This as a deep cut, and shout out to everyone I’m going to name, because they’re really good people. But like, when I taught… I used to be taught by Intan. Do you remember Intan?

KZ

Who’s this?

Oh, before she hired you and Ashley, like…

KZ

Okay, that is a deep cut then.

JV

But yeah, you started to teach me piano and I feel like that’s how I got really close or familiar with you. And then I would see you play piano at church while I was altar serving, because we would both go to 9am Mass every Sunday. And what I do miss about church is like, every first Sunday of the month they’d have, like, food; do they still do that? I wonder.

KZ

It’s not… it’s, it’s not the way that it used to be anymore. There’s like lesser– Yeah, since the pandemic and coming back around to it. Like, the barbecue vendor isn’t there anymore, which is really unfortunate.

JV

Ahh. I miss that so much! laughs

KZ

Yeah! I do miss that, it’s deeply missed, though. I missed the tita that does that a lot.

JV

Yeah. Shoutout to her.

But tell me about St. Pat’s. I mean, I would say as a public school kid, I did feel like an outsider in a private school institution, because it’s like, in private school, everybody knows each other. Or it’s so established because I feel like, in St. Pat’s, people hang out inside and outside of school. So I would just be like that, like, public school kid that came in from the summer. And a lot of people thought I was doing that because I was gonna move into the school. But I wasn’t because I couldn’t afford private school and stuff. So it was cool. Like, I felt like I really made good friends at the time, like that time of my life.

But I’m gonna say that’s how we met, and I feel like it also helped me build a sense of community. And of myself, like there was…

Being with people in St. Pat’s really brought me that sense of Filipino community, as the places where I was growing up, in elementary and high school, there was not a lot of Filipino people. So I felt like being at church, and being with St. Pat’s youth group, and all that stuff, I feel like it really kind of developed my sense of Filipino community. Even though maybe I wasn’t fully agreeing with how I felt about church at the time, but I did find it fun to really just connect with people that have similar cultural values as me, because I didn’t really have anyone that had similar cultural values as me.

KZ

Yeah.

I like that you’ve mentioned that hand in hand with St. Pat’s, because I also have a similar kind of understanding as to how the music stuff was kind of related to St. Pat’s, right. Because we know that like the person who is leading Husmillo Studios, like she’s also very, like, quite involved with the music ministry at St. Pat’s. And I just know that like, so many of her students just turned out to be young Filipino kids in and around East Van.

JV

Mm-hmm.

KZ

Like, it still kind of is that demographic to this day. So it’s really interesting to kind of even just make the connection, that’s also… Even though it feels kind of like, extended out. From St. Pat’s […] it rings a bell for where I understand Filipino community to be in my life.

JV

Yeah.

I mean, and big shout out to Michelle [Husmillo], but I feel like the reason that, that may be is because Michelle went to, was also like, a St. Pat’s parishioner and student and everything. So I feel like her business is definitely going to be linked to the church. And I love it, I remember– That’s something I looked forward to as a kid. Going to her house or the studio, learn. I’m really trying to integrate music into my life again, so like, I think about those days, you teaching me or like, Michelle.

KZ

Wow. Can I ask how… Just because I feel like this is maybe surfacing as we keep going in this conversation. But [are] there any direct connections between… maybe cultural understanding and art for you?

Beyond like the people involved, because I know that like you also do art, with your visual arts especially and […] Because you’re so prominent with that now, I wonder if there’s any connection between… Yeah, how you find understanding or like, find cultural connection and how you approach art now?

JV

Mmm, yeah. I really want… Now that I’ve been seeing a lot of Asian representation in media, I really want to, I really want to kind of direct my art that way. When I make my art– photography, videography, whatever it is– I feel like I don’t do it in the way that it’s a fine art piece. Sometimes it can be a mixture of things, like documentation. With my art, I really want it to feel very tangible. Like, you know, you’re digitally seeing it, but I wanted to feel like analog. I want it to feel like you can touch it, or you can really look at it. And I think something I really want to do now that I have that kind of style built is like, how can I integrate my culture?

But at the same time, to be honest, I feel like it– As a Filipino Canadian? Not necessarily being raised in the Philippines, or speaking, I don’t speak fluent Tagalog and stuff like that. I do feel like it’s hard to really understand or really fully grasp that sense of culture that I want to portray in my art. I feel like I am getting there, through working with other Filipinos or working for them. But I think I really want to make something where it visually represents something with Philippine culture, like…

Imagine, like, a Nike ad or something. And it involves like, Filipino basketball players, like, I don’t know, that would be really amazing to see. If I was to make that ad, it would include that, but it would also include, like, I really wanted to include Tinikling, but the shoes, the feet they’re using is like, Nike shoes and stuff. That’d be really cool.

I feel like I want to integrate my culture more […] explicitly. I just want it to be shown, like, “Boom, look at this. And look at it combined with my culture.” That’d be really nice. And I feel like, for example, like that Nike Filipino thing that I just made up, like, I feel like that would be something that makes sense of my identity. Or I guess that would be an idea of an identity as I have that North American… Inside of me? And then but I outwardly show as a Filipino or a Southeast Asian person. So it’s like, making something like that would kind of resemble my identity, I guess, in a sense.

KZ

Yeah, yeah. No, I’m following. I like what you said about wanting it to feel tangible, wanting it to feel like you could actually hold it in your hands, right? But then, exactly, to your point of, like, how do you integrate it if you don’t actually quite know exactly what it is?

JV

Yeah.

KZ

‘Cause I’m definitely tracking what you’re saying about like, Tinikling would be so sick as a shoe ad. I can just imagine the angles, right? And like, how that would actually work out. That’s such a sick concept.

JV

Right?

KZ

And at the same time, it’s like there’s more to the culture, but then what is the culture and what parts of that do you actually you resonate with, right? And I’m understanding that it’s going to have to rely or depend on… Yeah, kind of like personal connections to culture, right?

So, I guess my follow-up here is… What would you name as like things that are explicitly Filipino Canadian?

JV

Mmm. Um… I mean, honestly, I feel like Filipino people are very flexible, like, not physically but emotionally, mentally. What I mean by that, in “flexible,” is… A Filipino– I noticed, a lot of Filipino people migrate to work, and they can easily adapt to that environment. If it’s to go to the Middle East to babysit, to make more money there and send it back. They will… kind of be, they’ll be flexible. I’ve seen Filipino people even become Muslim and everything.

And with Filipino Canadian… What are the most Filipino Canadian things? I’d probably say… Wow, that’s a really good question. I was gonna say, because of the flexibility. I feel like Filipino-ness, Filipino identity, or aspects of Filipino culture, I feel like it just overlaps everywhere. Our people are a very globalized people, in a way.

I don’t know what are Filipino Canadian things, but that’s true. That’s something that’s very true. I’m gonna say… I feel like it’s more of like– Oh, that’s a Filipino Canadian thing. Like, because some, maybe some of our customs that we do are not necessarily the most common. Like, for example, like when you see when you drive through the neighborhood, in Christmastime, and you see like the parol, like the star thing. Like, you pass that house and you’ll be like, oh, like, they’re Fil– You’ll know they’re Filipino. But it’s like in Canada. There’s so many… You know, there’s so many different cultures. So that’s like, when you see the parol, that’s when you know.

But I feel like maybe Filipino Canadian things to me, are more just like, it’s a marker in which, seeing Filipino things in Canada makes me identify that like, okay, yes, that’s a Filipino Canadian thing. I don’t know if that’s the answer you were looking for, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna go with that. I think that makes the most sense to me.

KZ

Yeah. I mean, I didn’t have an answer that I was expecting either. I think I’m just curious, because I don’t even know how to approach the question either, if I’m being so true. I mean, what you’re mentioning about the parols, and like seeing them through Christmastime, and like, just having that be an obvious marker of like, “Oh, yeah, you know a Filipino lives there.”

One that actually came to my mind as you’re saying that and then as I was trying to ask the question to myself, was like, I don’t know if you remember that the nearest Jollibee before they opened in Vancouver was in the States?

JV

Yeah. Like, Bellingham.

KZ

Exactly. Yeah. So I just remember so many parts of my childhood is driving down all the way past Bellingham to get to the nearest Jollibee. But then getting to that parking lot and then seeing all of the BC license plates be like, laughs Like, we’re in the States, we’re in a different country. We’re all here for Jollibee? Like you’re telling me we’re here for culture right now?

JV

Yeah, no, that? That’s a Filipino Canadian thing for sure. For sure. In the West Coast, that is definitely laughs

KZ

So particular to being Fil-Can in Vancouver, I find, because even if I explain it to people here in Toronto, they’re like, “What are you doing?”

JV

Yeah. Wow, that’s, that’s a deep cut.

KZ

Yeah. But it does make me, I think, coming back to maybe the Vancouver experience and kind of where we see ourselves represented and where we see or maybe where we just understand that the community exists. I guess a question is like, are there particular neighborhoods? Are there particular places? Like if you had to, like, visualize it on a map, right? Like where would you say you understand where Filipino community is in Vancouver?

JV

This is a great question, great question. Um, I’m gonna say the most Filipinos… South Vancouver for sure. I feel like South Vancouver has a very healthy mix of South Asian, Vietnamese, Chinese and Filipino people.

Joyce, Joyce-Collingwood, definitely. That is kind of where I would say that– You said there was a Koreatown or like a, like a Chinatown in Vancouver. I would say Joyce would be the most “”Filipinotown area. Just because there is a lot of sari-sari stores and like, a lot of restaurant– good, like, eats, a good restaurant, like Filipino restaurants out there.

I’d say Burnaby as well, South Burnaby like that Rumble area, where Burnaby South is, there’s a lot of Filipinos out there. And like, Metrotown, that area as well. I work out there, so I do see a lot of Filipinos in that area. And I think… I’m trying to think where else, like, South Vancouver for sure. Like Marpole– like from, from Marine Drive to Marpole, like that whole Marine Drive, I feel like there’s a lot of Filipinos there. That’s where I’d be.

And Fraser Street. I’m talking about the whole thing, but two specific areas. The south part, the Sunset area, which is from Fraser and 57th, to Fraser [and] 41st. That is, I mean, that is also a very like, like Indian place. But I definitely think Filipinos, there are a lot of Filipinos just in that area as well.

And then the next area would be like around Mount Pleasant, like that Kingsway, Kingsgate Mall area, like Kingsway. Kingsway has a lot of like, Asian people, but a lot of like Filipinos as well. So I’m gonna say like, Central, East Van to East Burnaby. And then there’s just a cut into Surrey, that’s when there’s a bunch of Filipinos too.

I think that’s what I would say– If you know Vancouver, the Greater Vancouver area, that would be like, the division in my head of where they would be. And if you’re not in those areas, you’re either like an outlier. Like you really, I’m gonna be honest. Like, it’s like a like– I’m gonna be honest, no, I’m serious. Like if you’re a Filipino living in North Vancouver, you’re probably pretty well off. It’s very true. Especially in Kerrisdale, if you see if– I never seen, I grew up in high school in Kerrisdale, never seen a Filipino live in Kerrisdale. I don’t know what it is, but there was none. And that’s why I felt so kind of lost in my culture in that time of my life. But I do feel like that, I’m not saying that the areas are poor. Vancouver is expensive anywhere in the area, like, South Vancouver is now very expensive to live at as well, right? But it’s just like, you’d never– I just never seen Filipinos living in those areas often. And usually, if I hear about it, well…

KZ

Like, “Oh, yeah, that explains things.”

JV

There’s a lot of them in Richmond too.

KZ

Word, okay.

JV

There is. I have a lot– I, what the– I have a lot Filipino friends from Richmond. I didn’t know that there was a lot of Filipinos in Richmond. I didn’t know [until] recently.

KZ

I think St. Paul’s, just because I was so entrenched in the Catholic school system. I know that in St. Paul’s in particular and like, now I know that St. Joseph’s the Worker was, those are two different Catholic kind of pins, Catholic Church pins, in which maybe a lot of Filipinos kind of where. I’d see that kind of surface depending on who showed up at [the] elementary school and high school that I went to. Yeah. Yeah, kind of just like builds on the understanding.

But what I’m kind of getting at here is like, we’re kind of everywhere, no?

I think with kind of this mapping of it, I wonder if there are any kind of, like, what do you enjoy? But also like, what are the challenges to maybe accessing community in Vancouver? Or like accessing culture?

JV

As a Filipino? Hmm. I feel like it’s sometimes like, for me? Oh, my goodness, I was actually thinking about this before our conversation, because I felt like this type of question would come up. And I feel like a challenge would be like the intergenerational gaps. Like, I feel like when I speak to somebody, that’s like our parents age, like, mid 50’s to 60’s that is also Filipino… the way that I, the way that both of us see life is very different. Very different.

And I noticed, and I noticed that sometimes, neither group, I’m not saying I’m any better, that’s why I’m saying neither group; me nor the elder… I feel like we don’t really get along. Not necessarily get along, but there will be a clash in our perspectives, that really puts a strain on wanting to spend time with each other. I don’t think it’s me becoming increasingly sensitive or anything. For me, it’s like, if this is a big like gap in our values– I don’t feel like you would– I’m not really the type of person to change your mind about something. Like if, if you if you believe– if you feel that way about it, who am I to say you’re wrong? Like, I mean, I may feel like it’s wrong, but like, it’s not really… Who am I to convert your opinion?

But I guess what I mean by that is I think that is a kind of a barrier sometimes in community building in Filipino groups, because, you know, I think now that I’ve… In my current job, like, that is not photography, like I work with people in different age groups. And I feel like when it is the same culture, there is a bit of tension, sometimes, in the way that like, “You’re so lucky to grew up here.” Almost like an inherent or implicit jealousy or something like that. I feel like that’s something I noticed.

But on the– I want to finish this on a more positive note. I do feel like Filipino community building in Vancouver is very good. If you are in similar age groups, like maybe you know, our age group, right? I would say that I was very disconnected with my Filipino identity in high school, because there’s just not a lot of Filipino people… Kind of, you know, a little bit of bullying and stuff sometimes about being Filipino. And it’s whatever, you know. As a kid, it was just like, whatever to me, it was, it was funny. But then you look, you kind of look back at it. And I was like, whoa, I really kind of was putting myself down culturally, wow. I’m belittling myself, and I didn’t want to do that anymore. So I decided, you know, what, let me let me see what it’s all about. Like, the moment I left high school, I’d say majority of my friends are Filipino.

And I’ve built a connection with them compared to my older friends that I’ve never had before because we’re so… The level of understanding that we have for each other is so intricate. It’s so, it’s so deep, and it’s very strong. And I think it’s because we are [from] the same culture. Statistically, like people, people will always kind of gravitate to their race, because it’s familiar to you. But then I didn’t really realize, it kind of went beyond like that fact that, just because I’m familiar with them. But it wouldn’t be it wouldn’t be on the fact that I really felt like the Filipino friends I’ve made in the past couple of years that I’ve been outside of high school. They’ve become like, almost like family, really, really close. So I do feel like there is a big strength in building Filipino connections or bonds.

And it’s like, even if we’re not traditionally practicing Filipino things together, like maybe we’re not speaking Tagalog to each other. We’re not doing traditionally Filipino things. I still feel like just the fact that I have like Filipino people around me. It’s a very comforting, and almost empowering thing really. Like, yeah.

So I’m gonna say that like it, there are challenges, especially when it comes to different age groups. And just values, I feel like, as the world becomes increasingly liberal– which is good, I think– I do feel like the traditional mindsets people still have kind of clash with the newer mindsets that the younger people have these days. I feel like that kind of puts– That’s a big factor in what causes that divide.

KZ

I think that’s really meaningful, what you just shared. And, again, a lot of that resonates, a lot of that is very true to kind of the everyday… Both struggles and also the gratification of like, yeah, those are the parts of culture that I find most fulfilling.

That’s precisely what it is. Whether it’s there or not, like, it kind of isn’t the point. The point is, the people and the connections, and also the understanding. Where it’s like, even if you don’t verbalize the understanding, it’s just there. You don’t have to explain yourself, you know? And there’s something that’s so… Yeah, it’s so interesting to me to be like, sometimes if we can’t even explicitly name the values that we speak of, we kind of just know.

JV

Right.

KZ

It’s kind of like an if, you know, you know, kind of thing, but in order to, by being able to cultivate that is what makes connections like these so strong.

JV

I want to add to your point really quick. I think that “if you know, you know” feeling is really, sometimes very, very satisfying, because I feel like as humans, the most common thing is like, we feel like we’re going through things alone. And like, I think being Filipino, or like speaking to a Filipino person about my issues. It’s like, oh, I’m really grateful that you experienced that too, because I felt like I’ve been so alone in experiencing all of this. I think that’s such a big thing.

Like, for example, my best friend, maybe we’ll talk about like, oh, like our parents being strict. But we’re already so old now. Right? We just both kind of understand. And it’s like, I mean, my mom isn’t as strict anymore. But like when we were growing up, I felt like that was something we really bonded over. We both, kind of made me feel like, I’m kind of glad it’s not just me that’s going through that right now. I feel like that kind of idea is really nice. Yeah.

KZ

And even those challenges and– The way that they kind of just feel like the same challenges that you’ve been going through since a kid, are still kind of there, sometimes, I find that to be so true. I was hearing or maybe I came across something not too long ago, that was just like, I’m in my 30’s and I’m still going through the same thing I was going through since I was 10. Just like, it’s the same battle. And I know that everyone even just like, despite culture and like, personality-wise can be dealing with things in different ways. But even just to know that so many of us, it does feel like generational challenges that intersect with cultural challenges. And you’re right, being able to find the people, and make those, really cultivate those relations is so key. And it’s really nice that we’re able to find that, you know, like even just wherever we are, essentially in the city. It feels like that’s, that feels very known and very prevalent.

JV

Yeah.

KZ

Yeah. Um, let’s see, I think we’re gonna move on to maybe the back half of these questions, which are kind of more questions about home and homemaking.

Where are what places do you consider to be home? Either in Vancouver or just like in general?

JV

Well, I mean, I feel like where I live, I feel like now that I’ve finished school and everything I’m… and I feel like I’ve had some kind of like realizations, and it’s kind of perspective shifts in my personal life. I really do… I used to kind of always want to go out. But, I do really feel comfort in my own home nowadays.

Home to me, just like when I’m with my friends as well, like, it’s a figurative thing. Like, I don’t think it has literally just be my home. I think I’m at home, when I’m with my friends. So like in Vancouver, like definitely, like my friends from my old job. Like, my close friends that live near me. I’d say like being with them, like, that’s also like the presence of home for sure.

And being with my family as well. I think family is something that is so complex in our culture. Like you love them, you hate them. That’s like, they all stick together because– ‘cause we’re family, that’s the biggest, that’s I feel like that’s the most Filipino saying, like, “Because we’re family” or like, “We have to because it’s family,” right? And I feel like– But, at the same time, I feel like because that has been primed in my mind so much, I do feel like there is. It’s a valid reason in my head. I will do this for you, I will see you, I will do whatever for you, because you’re my family. Like, even if we don’t fully get along, like if you really need a hand like… I have to put whatever we have aside for a second, you know?

And then lastly, I’ve been in New York quite a bit recently. And the friends I made out there is definitely what I call home too. I definitely call that like, definitely like a second home. Very nice, very nice people, very nice. Just such a good relationship that kind of appeared out of nowhere. And like, it’s probably one of the most meaningful, really– The guys that I met out there probably one of the most like meaningful relationships I’ve made like in my personal life, because it’s like, wow, we’re so close, but we live far, we live in different places. But we still like, call and like check in on each other regardless of the time difference, stuff like that. So I’d say like whatever I mentioned there, that’s definitely what I call home, or like I define as home.

KZ

I think there’s something really insightful in what you were just sharing, in actually what you’re just saying about like your New York friends, and even though they’re far apart, you still make the time and it still feels like commitment, and it still is a meaningful relationship.

The visual that I have in my mind are like, the relationships that you have forever, and then the relationships that you’ve just made. And then they’re very meaningful to you personally in very different ways, right? But then what you were saying about the New York friends again, about, they’re far apart, but then still meaningful. And then with family it’s like, stick together because we’re family. It kind of just makes me think there’s a full circle in there about what you’re saying about transnational families. And what you’re saying about remittance and sacrifice, and what it means to really carry relations no matter where you are, right? Quite literally bringing it back home, a really big thing that I find across a lot of kind of conversations like these are just like, home isn’t necessarily a place. Home, in most cases, are the people.

JV

Mm-hmm.

KZ

So I think that’s really special that it kind of comes together in those ways. And yeah, maybe just out of curiosity, in what you’re just saying about traveling to New York, and only traveling recently, and it’s kind of in a newer season of your life.

I wonder if there are also cultural connections to be found there in terms of navigating what it means to be Filipino elsewhere, and not in the place that you grew up?

JV

Yeah. Oh my goodness, this is a really good question too because I was speaking to my friend about my experiences of being Asian out there. So the friends I was with, all the people I was with was Black, and I lived in Queens. But I lived in this area that was a suburb, a county, that was predominantly Black. I never saw a white person in this area. I never even saw Asian people– I was the only Asian person in this area, like, I was getting the looks, I can’t lie. laughs

And I think something I realized about cultural connection. I had one friend out there– shout out to him, his name is Pax– where he’s the only Filipino person I knew while I was there. And it might have been just because of where I was, like, I realized how big New York is, beyond just Manhattan, and I believe the areas I was in the whole trip, I was in the least dense Filipino areas. I believe Filipino areas are New Jersey and Astoria, Queens, which is the north side of Queens. So I never really saw a lot of Filipino people, and apparently there’s a lot out there, but I didn’t see them.

But I think something that was shocking to me, and it might be a bunch of factors. But something that kind of shocked me was like people weren’t able to identify me. A lot of people thought I was Korean. A lot of people thought I was like Chinese because– Okay, well, benefit of the doubt, like, there is a lot of Korean population in New York. Especially like… I don’t know, apparently, that’s a very common thing. So like I was, I’d be shaving my head, right. So, like, when I was there, I was bald, this bald Asian dude.

And like, a lot of people thought I was like, Chinese. I mean, I am. My dad is half Chinese. But I don’t really it’s like, kind of like the… It’s kind of like the integrated culture when like, a lot of like, Chinese migrants move to the Philippines, so they’re kind of just Filipino. I don’t know, it’s very complex, but there’s this dialect called Hokkien, which is like a combination, right, of like Philippine and Chinese language.

And a lot of friends asked me. A lot of my friends that are American, they were asking me, like, “Where are you from?” laughs And I was like, “What? I’m Canadian.” And they’re like, “What?” Then they’re like, “No, like, where are you from?” Like, I’m like, “Oh, I’m Filipino.” And they’re like, “Really?” I’m just like, “Yeah, like, I’m Filipino.” But I feel like people were kind of surprised. I think what, what was shocked me was I think people were surprised I didn’t have like an Asian accent. laughs

Take in, this is all Black people asking me these questions. Which is fine, like, there’s nothing wrong, like race or whatever. But they were basically saying, like, “How come you don’t have an accent?” Or like, “Why do you sound like, you know, English?” laughs Like, I feel like they were just trying to grasp the the fact that a Filipino Canadian exists.

It’s a very, it was a very interesting interaction. I mean, they loved me, like, we like we all got along at the end. But like, at first when they’re just asking about, like, who I am, right? They’re just like, “How do you…” Because I feel like they were kind of shocked because like, I’ve been to New York before, so they’re like, “Oh, why do you know the lingo?” It’s like, whoa, like, what? Like, I’m just like, I spoke English all my life. Like I wanted to tell them, I don’t even know, like, my native language that well. I can speak it a little bit, or understand it a little bit. But it’s like… It’s like, what the heck, bro? laughs

KZ

That’s so funny. Just to be like, “What do you mean? This is my normal day-to-day experience.” It feels like a reverse culture shock.

JV

Yeah! You know, honestly though, it was the first time I was really asked, “What are you?” And it’s cool, I don’t really take it personally. I think it just shocked me because we’re in the same country– or the same continent, excuse me. Yeah. laughs

KZ

Yeah. The world is big, man. laughs

And I think the reason, and coming back around to our conversation about Vancouver. It’s so fascinating, at least, for me to learn about Vancouver in terms of contrastive experiences. And maybe this is also because it’s my bias of also being away from Vancouver for the first time and for an extended period. Like sure, I’m in the same country still and it is yet a very different experience to look at Vancouver in these ways. So it does kind of make me think, yeah, that sounds completely contrastive to how you understand and perceive yourself in Vancouver, where you know that everyone knows you’re Filipino, you know? Like that perception is that so strong, and then to suddenly to have it asked of you is so strange, because I didn’t even think that could happen, you know?

JV

I honestly get asked that a lot. A lof of people, even in Vancouver, a lot of people assume I’m Chinese. Like, if they don’t know my name, my last name, because I feel like my last name is pretty Filipino. But when I meet people, I work at Arc’teryx, and the customer base there is pretty Mandarin-speaking, and they don’t speak English, so when I’m working a lot of people just kind of start speaking to me in Mandarin. And I’m like, “Oh, sorry, I don’t understand.” And I have to find someone, we always have a co-worker that speaks it. But sometimes I wish I knew Mandarin or something like that.

When I meet Filipinos, especially older ones, they’re like, “Oh, Filipino ka ba?” Like, oh, really? You’re Filipino? They didn’t know. I’m like, “Oh, you didn’t think I was?” And they’re like, “No.” I was like, “Oh, wow.” Maybe I am pretty in-between. And my friends in the States said it’s because of my hair texture. To them, they think it’s very Chinese.

KZ

Like the stick straightness of it?

JV

Yeah, especially my facial hair.

KZ

Ah, interesting. I feel like I know a lot of, at least– I’m thinking about my brother, who also kind of like shaves bald sometimes. And I’m just like, yeah, he has stick straight hair. I wonder. Wonder if there’s anything else that’s contrastive, or maybe that’s just like a generally Asian type of distinction to have, in terms of just that hair comment. But yeah. Actually, yeah, that’s, that is an interesting point to be like, this doesn’t just happen in New York, this also just happens in your day-to-day.

And I think that’s also quite, I don’t know, maybe it’s because of what I understand from some retail experiences– and again, like, I’ll say that my brother worked in retail for quite a minute, and he was also thinking about learning Chinese at some point, because it seemed more helpful for him in the long run for his career. And I was just like, you would learn Chinese languages before you would learn Tagalog, even though it was your first language? Like, the contrast is real, but maybe that just goes to show like, what… What seems “useful,” kind of just like working in certain spaces, or being around certain spaces in Vancouver as well.

JV

For sure.

KZ

Yeah, and maybe just to come back around to that language point, you said that– Did your dad know Hokkien? Or I guess, I’m understanding that your dad was Chinoy, effectively?

JV

Yeah, he is. I think so. Like I, I don’t know. Like, they don’t speak Hokkien in the house when I used to see my dad and stuff. He would speak like, theywould speak Ilonggo, which is a dialect. But I think my dad knew Mandarin though. I think he knew it, or like, Cantonese– he knew one of those because he was a, he was like, a sailor before. And when you sail, you do need to know languages, right? So, I think he knew either Cantonese or Man– one of them, but like it was pretty… It was pretty interesting.

But in that, I did meet a Chinoy at London Drugs last week, and that tripped me out. Oh my goodness. Okay, so um, I’m gonna say this. This is good, because I was like… I was at London Drugs, the one on Victoria and 41st, and I’m trying to get like, I’m trying to drop a package off at Canada Post because I was shipping something. And the lady was speaking Mandarin, like, helping this old lady ship something in Mandarin. So this was, which was cool. It was nice to see her speak. And then, one of my neighbors where I live is actually a pharmacist there. And he came up to the lady, he’s friends with the post office lady. So they started speaking Tagalog.

And I was like, wait a minute, I was like, weren’t you just speaking– I said this. I was like, “Wait a minute, weren’t you just speaking Mandarin?” And she’s like, “Yeah?” And I was like, “You can speak both?” And she was like, “Yeah!” I was like, “That’s so cool!” Like, yo that’s so cool! Because her accent switched completely like, she was, she sounded very, like her– her Mandarin was nice. And then like, when she switched to Tagalog, I was like, wow, you sound like my mom. Like, there was no, I don’t know. And I couldn’t tell visually if she was Filipino or not. She actually looked ambiguous, like, in between both and I was like, I felt like, wow, that was very cool.

KZ

Yeah, to kind of exist in both spaces at the same time and like, channel it so seamlessly. Code-switching is so trippy, I will say. Yeah, just to see it happen. Like sometimes even like the English to Filipino language switch for me. I’m just like, “Oh, you just sound like a different person.” Um, but yeah, that’s so fascinating– And did you, like, end up asking if she was like, both Chinese and Filipino?

JV

I forgo– No, I didn’t ask, but I’m assuming she was both. She looked like she was half or like, she definitely… I want to say Filipino because like her English accent.

KZ

Mmm.

JV

Yeah. Now I don’t even remember. Oh, might need to drop another package just to like, hear it again. laughs

KZ

Might to buy some stamps or something real quick. laughs

Oh my god. Yeah, I will– I always love a good language story, but that in particular, it’s just like… I love it when it’s shocking. Yeah, like just the positive shock of like, “Wait, you can do that? like, “That, that exists and like, that is a thing?” is pretty incredible. And um– Sorry, just to loop back again to… You said that you, your parents spoke Ilonggo at home?

JV

Oh, my fault. My dad spoke Ilonggo to his siblings, his family, and then my mom spoke… Well, they spoke, they all speak Tagalog, but like, dialects. My dad’s– but yeah, so Illongo, my dad, and then my mom and her family, her side was Kapampangan.

KZ

And then would you say like, in the home, what was your exposure to these different Philippine languages?

JV

Mmm, okay. I… So this is, this is actually pretty important, I think– I hope if I say this, I hope this resonates with any other Filipino Canadian or I wonder if they experienced this, but growing up… I apparently, when I was learning language, I couldn’t pronounce like my consonants properly, like fully. I was having trouble with like, seeing “r” or like “w”, like I was having– I was having a hard time with like, pronouncing like some consonants. So my mom took me to speech therapy and they told the, like, they told my mom, just like, “Stop–,” like, just to only speak English in the house. So I felt like I was almost stripped of my language.

Like, I’m not gonna be like… I mean, it’s not really like, it’s not, like, it’s kind of out of my control. Like, I mean, it’s not really like against, anyone’s fault. I think like, my mom just had her best intentions for me. But of course, I feel like… a North American speech therapist… Because you know, like, you’ve taken language, you know that there are cognitive and positive benefits of bilingualism. But it’s like, so I feel like I did miss out on that potential benefit. Because I felt like the way I spoke could have maybe smoothened out as I grew up, but. sighs

My, like, honestly, I understand Tagalog. I’m gonna say my relationship with language is that I speak and understand English fluently. Tagalog is something I understand like, I can understand someone in conversation, but I’ll either answer you like a kid, in very simple Tagalog, or like Taglish, or I would just reply to you in English. Like my mom– My mom speaks to me in Tagalog now. I’ve kind of been speaking a bit more Tagalog now. I’m trying to, when I’m just with her. Because she started to just speak more in Tagalog and I understand everything she’s saying. So I’m pretty happy that I have that. But I do feel like if I practiced it as a kid more, I would have been able to speak it. And it’s something I wish I was able to do. But it’s okay. Like, maybe that’s like, an experience, or a challenge of being Filipino Canadian, you know? Like, it is something I do think about, especially that I did take a bit of linguistics in my studies, I took one course. And I did think about I was like, wow, like, I, I am not bilingual. I mean, like, fully. So it’s very, like, iffy. And when it comes to the dialects, I don’t understand them. I can identify them, I can tell when someone’s speaking Illongo, I can tell when someone’s speaking Kapampangan. But I usually, that’s when I don’t know what they’re saying. laughs I, you lose me there.

KZ

And that’s an interesting distinction, too, because I also think that that’s how maybe I like started to attempt to learn dialects was just like– it even takes a moment to just be able to identify what they’re speaking in the first place, especially because they seem to know multiple at a time. So it’s always kind of like, you can always get lost in the blur of like, them speaking maybe Tagalog as a common language, and then them switching in and out of it. I know that really tripped me up as a kid, but then like, yeah, having to parse through separate Philippine languages is also a skill that like, kind of just comes with exposure.

So I think there’s… Yeah, kind of just like in, in response to you saying about the challenges of not knowing your languages, and kind of like being stripped away from it, it’s one, it’s so interesting to hear that come out of speech therapy. I feel like there could be a lot of implications out of like, a professional telling you to do that for the health and benefit of your kid. There’s so much riding on the choice and the willingness to follow and abide, right?

But then also, yeah, kind of like looking back to, like, even just looking in hindsight to these kinds of language experiences and how they tie into culture and how they tie into, like, your understanding of like, identity and all of that, like, everything is fluid. Like even just in terms of understanding languages as a whole, like– Even for you to say you’re trying to make more of an active effort now. That’s huge. That’s kind of all you can ask for at the end of it, right? And like, just like the willingness to even just attempt and try naturally, it’s only gonna go up from there. Right?

And I think there’s maybe a general understanding of like, you’re either bilingual or you’re not. And there’s like this cut off, kind of like you have it or you don’t, and I don’t think that’s necessarily true. And especially when you’re speaking to things about like, because I’m getting a lot of, like, in-between-ness, maybe from some of, or a lot of your commentary, and I think there’s a lot of in-between-ness, and in… There’s a lot of in-between-ness in the culture, and especially I think it’s a telling feature. It’s a distinctive feature, kind of very similar and very related to the fluidity of like, what we understand what Filipino means, like what being Filipino means, like, it’s the same kind of fluidity, and that applies to kind of understanding language or understanding other aspects of culture. Like, there’s always parts of it that you can take with you. There’s always parts of it that you don’t have to take if you don’t want to, right? The choice to kind of opt in and out and still participate in culture in those ways is very valid.

Maybe one last thing that I want to close with here is… Yeah, maybe just this. What’s the best part about being Filipino in Vancouver?

JV

Oh. I don’t know. My experiences as being Filipino in Canada is that there is some mutual respect. There is. I feel like there is. I feel like there is always going to be that person, like a bad– no, I don’t want to say bad apple– but you know, like, there will be experiences as a person of color. You will bump into racial things or events, little moments, little microaggressions. But I feel like Filipinos do get the respect that they deserve. Every time I tell people I’m Filipino, they’re like, “I love Filipino people, like, very hardworking.” Like, even if it may come off a bit, like, stereotypical, it’s just like, I feel like there is just an acknowledged acceptance or praise. It’s just like, I appreciate you for viewing my culture that way. You know?

Especially that it’s a culture lost in its stability, in its identity. I feel like it’s so complex identifying a Filipino because of the amount of colonization that has happened. And just the complexities like marginalization, especially when a Filipino moves to another country, right? So I feel like when I do hear that people appreciate Filipinos for being like hardworking, or whatever reason… Like, I really do appreciate that. Because it makes me… I don’t know, that makes me feel good to be Filipino.

And I think that the good another good thing is like the, the community. I feel like there’s just, being Filipino […] you’ve got a person for everything. You need this? Talk to this guy. You need this? Like, go speak to this guy. You need this? Oh, then you speak to me– I’m just kidding. But like, I don’t know, I feel like that being Filipino, there is a lot of that just word-of-mouth connection. You need like a bunch of food, you need a big order of lumpia? Hit this lady up. Like, I don’t know. Stuff like that, though, it’s real.

KZ

Yeah, just being able to, like facilitate connections, even though they’re not formal. And even just knowing, even though you don’t know them personally, you know someone who does. And like just being able to, like, just have those extensions out, further out, just makes you know that there’s so many like us just around that you can hit up kind of at any time. Yeah, that’s huge.

I think that was everything. Is there anything that we haven’t discussed yet that you’d maybe like to cover before we get wrapped up?

JV

Something that I do experience that is unique to Filipino Canadians is the pressure of a career. I do feel like in their family, there’s a pressure from parents or an expectation of their child to do something. And a lot of the times, I noticed a lot of my friends or people I know, a lot of the cases it’s a lot of my friends may be going to school for their parents or doing a career that like is heavily influenced by their parents. And I feel like that is also a unique Filipino Canadian experience.

KZ

Yeah, [in] more cases than not, like, it makes me… Like, there’s, there’s distinct people that come to mind for me, like, especially within circles that we both know, where it’s like… Ah, like you can kind of really like track the generational changes, but then you can also track the patterns of like, “Oh, wait, that’s a lot of nurses. And I wonder why that’s like still a thing,” for example, right? And like, yeah, a lot of questions about like stability, again, and then a lot of questions about, like, changing times. It’s a gig economy, for instance, now, and it’s just like, that’s a lot more common than sticking to the same career for very many years on end, like say, that’s how my parents were able to make a living out here and still continue to. They’ve been doing the same thing for decades, right? And I don’t know, even just speaking for myself, I don’t even know if I have that in my cards right now. And like, what does that mean? And like, yeah, kind of just goes back into the tensions of understanding intergenerational gaps and trying to navigate them as we’re doing in real time and all of that. So thank you for bringing that up, that’s definitely something that I see too.

Yeah. And with that, I think we are I think we are all through. Thank you so much again, Jotham, for being here and for sharing your stories.